Hi eeevil conservative,

This is in response to the conversation over at GoE. The moderator there doesn't like me very much :) so first, let me put here the "final" msg I wanted to give before that moderator took a shine to me.

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Shoelimpy: Yes, I've been reading through the earliest posts on GoE and I see many people used what happened to Capitol as an example of what they feared would happen on 17 March.

I called it irrational because I think it is irrational for someone to act against one's own interests.

eeevil conservative: In my haste I was too ambiguous and I forgot to put in the link to the FreeRepublic post I was referring to. It is here, dated 5 March 2007. It is significant because it is the first post I know of in which actual evidence of a planned desecration was presented.

Thanks for that. I've been trying to put together a timeline to reconstruct just how this went. If you know of an earlier specific threat, I would be most appreciative. Or you could contribute directly! It's on this wiki here.

I love wiki because I find that, when people are forced to collaborate like that, they are more likely to get to the truth rather than being able to hide in their little ideological echo-chambers. It's the 'wisdom of the collective'. I would be very grateful if one of you would come along and, uh, 'slam some more of my lies outta the park'.

FYI, the earliest alert of any kind that I've found so far on FreeRepublic is 31 Jan, 2007. As far as I can tell, back then, it was referred to not as GoE, but Operation Honor Locked In Stone. It was also clear back then that the 'defilement' feared was not a literal one, but a metaphorical one, as in the use of the memorial for political purposes.

Passing the word received on the next anti-war debacle to be held, of all places, the Vietnam Veterans Memorial! ... we need to enlist legions of veterans to form a wall of honor to prevent the wall's use as a backdrop and defilement by the radial left.

I'd like to figure out just when the feared 'defilement' metamorphosised from a metaphorical one to a literal one.

What is it with right-wing blogs and having stringent controls on who comments and what they say? Well, whatever I guess, it's your blog, comrade ;)

Anyway, the thing I wanted more info on is this. Two things. First in Commie Carlos' 13 Feb communique, he refers to rumours of actual defilement of the Wall. Was there any evidence of a planned physical attack on the wall before March? Did anyone say anything about attacking the wall before then, or was it always just an inference on your part?

Second, you said that ANSWER had originally planned to use the wall as a backdrop, but changed their plans in response to GoE. Now I had interpreted it as Carlos stuffing up the location, but your interpretation is plausible as well. Do you have any evidence that they had explicitly planned to use the memorial in their protest? Did they say it anywhere on their sites or forums?

Thanks for the map, btw. I know you probably think I have horns growing out of my head and eat babies for breakfast or something, but I actually do want to know the truth behind this whole debacle. I don't know. Maybe with a handle like "eeevil conservative" you know what I'm getting at.

hey ele

I appreciate your search for the facts...this is paramount for ALL of us. Forgive me if I was a tad rough with you at first- but I am quite sick of the lies out there. On MANY issues.

Please feel free to email me at anytime:

ec(at)eeevilconservative.com

As for the group of folks I know and talk with, fear of the literal defacing of the Vietnam Wall came on the day of the 27th.

Before that, I believe many were planning to (what we call) "FREEP" the anti-war protest anyway.

See- In DC- "FREEPing" has been going on since 1998.

One of the most significant "FREEPS" was done back in 2000, when the DC Chapter gathered outside the Vice President's House telling Al Gore to get out of Dick Cheney's House.

but I digress...

The DC Chapter of FREEPers are a very active group- the most active and organized group of FREEPers I know of.

Like I mentioned before they are outside of Walter Reed every week-- in fact this past Friday was their official 100th week at Walter Reed. They also FREEP against another group in Olney, MD every Saturday.

One FREEPer- Doctor Raoul has been known to show up at the capitol to counter these folks all on his own...(He brings a bullhorn too- LOL!)

I got some interviews with these folks when I was there this weekend- I have to edit them and clean them up a bit.. and then I will be posting them up...

The Gathering of Eagles, I believe, was created strictly in response to the vandalsim of the Capitol on the 27th. This was truly a grass roots effort in every way. No funding from any groups like ANSWER and the Pinkos have.

These folks literally paid their own way, made their own signs, and used the internet to plan, organize, arrange carpools from hundreds if not thousands of miles from DC, etc...

This is truly an historic event.

ele

LOL! the safegards for posting are for 3 reasons. One- I want a family friendly site- the language some people use is just a tad harsh for my taste. I want to have a place that I would allow my children to visit.

Two- the spammers are just RELENTLESS!

Three- I had a blog at one time that did not offer controls-- Someone didn't like my ability to share my thoughts, and attacked the site. I had to take commenting off all together. They literally jammed the site...over a years worth of work - building a readership, etc was destroyed....

amazing when all they have to do is start their own blog and then they can call me anything they like! LOL!

As for your questions-

I don't believe ANSWER had any plans to defile the Memorial. See- the problem is that like any public gathering- you don't know who is going to show up. There are bad apples in every group- doctors, police, you name it. Many of the hard left Communist groups thrive on chaos though.

Something you should understand. It is the goal of people like Cindy Sheehan to get arrested. This allows her to travel to Germany and claim that she lives in a "police state." Have you noticed how many times she has been arrested, and the big smile on her face when it happens? We actually had someone infiltrate the Pinkos- they literally ended up scared and just couldn't do it anymore.

Anyway- I believe there are people against the war who are truly peaceful and peace-lovers. I know conservatives who were against this war before it ever got started- Pat Buchanon is one of those, and my co-host on my radio show is also one of them. But the folks that actually organize and show up at these rallies, are true Communisists. Now, some of these college and high school kids don't really know that the agenda they are ascribing to is based in communism, some do and just want to feel like they are part of some great revolution.

Youngins really like to puch back at authority. They are so idealistic and hopeful, and spend a lot of time feeling like the world is not fair, and this is the ultimate rebellion.

Either way-- the folks showing up for these actual events are up to no good.

Sadly-- part of this is our fault, because the police are afraid to stop them. They are told to let these guys go as far as they want- until safety is truly an issue.

Being at the event on Saturday was a whole new thing for them. Those VETS in their leathers can be quite intimitdating. These guys came back from Nam...they certainly weren't afraid of the Pinkos.

As for ANSWER originally wanting to use the Memorial as a backdrop- I heard about that far before the incident on the 27th. I will do some research. I mean I can verify with my sources- but I want to get you the facts that you can actually look at and read for yourself, so you don't have to take my word for it.

Hold on BRB

LOL! No- I do not think you have horns or eat babies!

I actually admire you. Usually when I throw facts at someone- they just call me names, or move to another point to fight about.

You were quite persistant and respectful in wanting information.

heck you even have a sense of humor- I LOVE THAT!

and- yes- with my nic-- I know what you mean.

I get all kinds of assumptions thrown on me.

I figure with my views- the Liberals will call me evil anyway-- so why not just take that power from them, and embrace it!

LOL!

ele

I did that research...this might help- this is directly from the ANSWER WE SITE:

"Tens of thousands of people will be gathering at Constitution Gardens near the Vietnam Memorial prior to the March on the Pentagon on Saturday March 17. This is the same location that ANSWER used for its mass anti-war rally on October 26, 2002. On March 17, 2007 we will leave Constitution Gardens and march on Constitution Ave. and then to Virginia on the way to the Pentagon. We will not be in the Vietnam Memorial and all speakers for amplified sound are turned away from the Memorial so as not to interfere with family members visiting the site."

Do you notice where they say that they will March on Constitution Ave?

If you look at the map I made for you- you will see the LARGE thick black line. THAT is Constitution Ave.

If they had planned to meet in the red area all along- then they wouldn't have any place to "March" on Constitution Ave.

I saw the actual Map the DC FREEPers used to plan their permit areas- and the space shaded for the "protests" was exactly where I shaded in the pink. They planned on getting 100,000 people there. There is NO WAY that 100,000 people were going to fit in that red area.

another point to make.

on the map- if you look at Henry Bacon Drive- (this road is between the red area and the Memorial Wall) you need to understand the logistics of that day.

The police used little wooden temporary fences. If you go to my DC/GOE photo album and scroll down- you will see what these folks do to those fences. Well when they set up for this event- they used the little wooden fences everywhere except for 2 places. They used medal temporary barriers between the white area and the pink area- with a 12 foot gap between both areas. The interesting thing though- is that between the the red area and the Memorial (on the east side of Henry Bacon Dr)- they used cement barriers. Yes- the police used cement barriers between the "peacefuls" and the Memorial Wall only in the one place that the GOE would not be between them.

Like I said- it helps to actually know the history of these kinds of events in DC and the people involved. The police know what they are up against with these folks.

Sadly- it has taken over 30 years for the Vietnam Vets to finally be shown the support and honor they deserved all along.

We gathered to protect the Memorials of our fallen heroes, and to show the world that the silent majority will no longer go ignored. We gathered to honor our Vets and let our troops in Iraq know that we will NOT ALLOW the left to do to them what they did to the Vietnam Vets.

This is why we gathered.

and as Kristinn said on Fox News-

"Misson Accomplished"

Hi eeevil conservative,

Thanks for the response. Seriously. It's awesome that you get what I'm getting at, and I reckon between the few of us, we'll get to the bottom of this.

It seems a few of your points have been picked up by the other wiki collaborators in my absence (check out the latest improvements to the timeline). I'm going to go through it carefully soon. I really want to figure out if the apparent change in plans on ANSWER's part was just an accident or actually a response to GoE, as you say. That'll take time. I also need to check out the response to what happened at the Capitol, as that was obviously significant for you, and no doubt others.

Um, I guess I should 'fess up :) My partner just got himself a job he was after, and so he stole me away for for a few pints this afternoon to celebrate, so I'm in no condition to do this tonight. Hence the late reply, and my request that I'll need a day or two to catch up and put together all the stuff you've told me.

Be talking to you soon. And thanks for the input :)

Ele, and EC,

I want to respond to Ele's question concerning planned defilement.

THe reason it was feared, though no defilement was planned is because a majority, nearly 100% of all vandalistic acts are done by anarchists. Lt Smash...http://lt-smash.us/...lists many of the groups he encountered on Saturday.

Anarchists, by nature do not plan anything. They prepare for anything, but act on impluse and with opportunity presenting itself.